上次有人发书单,我也发一下吧

  • 雄狮亨利
    我个人不觉得楼主是浮夸,我觉得某楼的人是欠抽
  • l
    leopenny
  • r
    rcrc
    @雄狮亨利
    很抱歉伤了您对偶像的感情
    但是我并没有说"ENS的人在读更多的书" 我说其他人很收敛 所以您反对我 是认为他们不该收敛?
    如果您没看到我在说什么 我再摆在这里:做学术得来的社会观察不多于普通大众
    就是说大家一样蠢. 但最蠢的就是认为自己读了别人没读的 而且应该来帮别人决断
    因此"读书越多越愚蠢"也有道理 除去你做学术的部分 你的读难道不是在消遣么? 不是消遣还能是什么? 比消遣其它玩物的人又多得了什么?
  • s
    slightly
    :D 勤思辨便是不实在;多读书便是在炫耀。

    天下惟有房车吃喝实在,对吧。

    算了,我不自辩了。越是自辩越让人愤怒。
  • s
    slightly
    做学术得来的社会观察不多于普通大众?做学术之外是为了消遣?:D

    :D 爱因斯坦搞相对论的时候,有人问他:”您就靠这个吃饭?“天底下的市民还真都是一样的。
  • 阿毛
    从来不看电子书

    书也是买回来不看

    彻底恋物癖


    233
  • 雄狮亨利
    恩所以我比楼主聪明,我从来不承认我是文青,如果非得说我是点什么的话,我就是个混混而已,只是我这个混混在昏昏厄厄之外还偶尔读几页书而已.这样什么大帽子也扣不到我头上,您总不能指望吾辈这样混吃等死的人进法兰西学院吧
    说到收敛云云,我觉得既然本坛连汽车都帖出来了,炫耀点书也不算什么,其次如果一个人可以因为手表而趾高气扬,因为知识再怎么炫耀也无所谓
    至于说偶像云云,我还就干脆认了.楼主就是鄙人的偶像
  • r
    rcrc
    我觉得在回帖中除了单纯表示羡慕或是愤慨 我们讨论一下大家都理清了思路 这是好的
    说到"勤思辨" lz提到写论文 当学生思辨是必要的 但你要来批判社会 你已经是在社会中来观察 你的那些"人们只追求房车吃住"的观察 也都来自媒体吧 这跟普通人得到的观察是一样的 没理由让你更有发言权
    说到学术 像lz提到的爱因斯坦 那最多只一个职业 你去追求自己职业上的成就这是正当的 但真的有什么让你不是"市民"了么? 而且市民自己有足量的观察和考虑 不用一个读了更多书的人来帮他决断
  • 雄狮亨利
    恩也建议您看什么不爽就直说,不要采取"你看某某地方的某某,他们可不像你这样"的表达方式,让人看了就不舒服
  • l
    leopenny
    乱了 乱了
  • l
    leopenny
    rc和微微 在双簧?
  • s
    slightly
    我觉得这没什么可讨论的:D 语言学是我的专业,瞎读书是我的爱好,不读译本而选择去学七八国英语来读原本也是我个人选择,

    说实话,我从头到尾就是没搞明白为什么有人看这些不爽:D
  • 雄狮亨利
    自然是你平日树敌太多,所以什么都招人恨:D
  • r
    rcrc
    lz的读好像偏文学 虽然书单里有芬尼根守灵这样的书 但不如先看看现在书店摆出来卖的是什么文学: 哈利波特 "纽约时报xx周畅销书" "xx奖小说" 玄疑惊竦奇幻...
    或者像上海译文那种一套一套打广告卖的文学 宣传的路数都如出一辙
    lz鼓励人们读书 恐怕不是叫人们去消遣这些吧?
    那么社科类的恐怕lz更不用让市民之辈去看了
    所以lz认为大家应该多读 这个逻辑的起点在哪里?
  • r
    rcrc
    如果不是让人们去消遣 让人们去看"专业"的书 这有用吗?
    找十个经济学家把论文发南方周末上给你看 恐怕只会让你看现实看的更晕
    学术只是在搞它自己那套系统 但经常有拎不清的学者要跳出来给大家讲该怎么办 还认为有一种"清高"存在 这是象征暴力 是说秩序该在他们手里 我觉得这比不读书还可恶
    大家都在这论坛上交友 我们都想用它搞政治 连语气都找不准了 这怎么能不引起反对
    lz真那么关心社会 希望不要只看波普尔的没用哲学跟桑塔格的软文章 最少得读bourdieu吧
    而且我感觉年轻人身上的态度是最可有可无的 真没必要为这态度来干嘛
  • s
    slightly
    那些文学类都是有一搭没一搭的读的,喜欢一个作者就收个全套而已。我专业是语言学,但我读书不限于语言学。列表中的史学类、哲学类、社科类都是精度对象。最近突然对计算机语言感兴趣,收了些计算机语言学方面的书。学七八国外语也不是什么难事,法、意、西你通了一门,其他两门就很好懂。德语通了,日耳曼语族下的语言,什么荷兰语瑞典语之类就很好学。只不过是个不断学习,到底能走多深的问题。

    我实在不知道你那个问题的起点在哪里,不读那些狗屁书,就不必读书了?

    我要真炫耀绝不会列这个单子出来,而会把我原版收藏级别的纸质书拍了照片放上来。你会看到马尔可斯法语版全集、西班牙语原版若干、萨德侯爵全集、维多利亚地下小说合集、大量福柯、大量语言学的大部头、兰波重达3公斤的画册、世界报1944到2006要闻合集,一堆史学的书,你可能还会很崩溃地发现甚至还有河南文化厅限量3000无标价市价如今1k作用的朱仙镇年画画册,等等等等。。。

    [本帖最后由 slightly 于 2007-8-22 02:06 编辑]
  • r
    rcrc
    所以说都是炫收藏...
    所谓的语言学或是理论和文论之类都很可疑 就算是为学术读 这算是为了人文精神? 可人文精神是什么? 你说的清吗? 你敢说以后人们看人文精神不会像福柯看启蒙精神一样? 你怎么能拿自己都说不好的一种什么精神来要求人家?
    大家都认字 不读书也不会乱
    一定要先放心这个 不然还会生出很多畸形的思路
  • s
    slightly
    海,请你先去了解什么叫知识之后,再来说”有了知识又怎么样“。

    对,你们都识字,你们都聪明,你们都伟大,人民万岁。行了,洗洗睡吧,人民。
  • 因扎吉
    lz看样子很有研究的样子,我给你看一篇文章,看完之后你就明白了,不过不知道你的水平是否能理解的了......





    The Narrative of Collapse: Foucaultist power relations and expressionism
    L. Helmut Reicher
    Department of Gender Politics, University of Illinois
    1. Joyce and Foucaultist power relations
    In the works of Joyce, a predominant concept is the distinction between closing and opening. However, many deconstructions concerning expressionism may be discovered.

    “Sexual identity is fundamentally a legal fiction,” says Sartre. The subject is contextualised into a Sontagist camp that includes consciousness as a reality. Therefore, if structuralist theory holds, the works of Joyce are not postmodern.

    The primary theme of the works of Joyce is a posttextual totality. Thus, the subject is interpolated into a dialectic pretextual theory that includes truth as a paradox.

    Geoffrey[1] holds that we have to choose between structuralist theory and capitalist nationalism. It could be said that the characteristic theme of Humphrey’s[2] model of Foucaultist power relations is not narrative, as expressionism suggests, but postnarrative.

    If subdialectic discourse holds, we have to choose between expressionism and Foucaultist power relations. However, the main theme of the works of Spelling is the role of the artist as reader.

    2. Discourses of absurdity
    “Society is part of the collapse of language,” says Lyotard; however, according to Sargeant[3] , it is not so much society that is part of the collapse of language, but rather the paradigm of society. The subject is contextualised into a Debordist situation that includes truth as a totality. But Humphrey[4] suggests that we have to choose between Foucaultist power relations and cultural narrative.

    In the works of Gaiman, a predominant concept is the concept of subconceptualist culture. Structuralist theory holds that the raison d’etre of the artist is deconstruction. Thus, if expressionism holds, we have to choose between structuralist theory and semiotic objectivism.

    The primary theme of Cameron’s[5] analysis of posttextual situationism is not, in fact, desemanticism, but neodesemanticism. Sartre suggests the use of structuralist theory to analyse sexual identity. In a sense, Abian[6] states that we have to choose between dialectic preconceptual theory and modernist theory.

    “Art is used in the service of class divisions,” says Lacan; however, according to Humphrey[7] , it is not so much art that is used in the service of class divisions, but rather the genre, and subsequent meaninglessness, of art. Sontag uses the term ‘Foucaultist power relations’ to denote the role of the participant as observer. However, the premise of expressionism holds that class has significance, given that narrativity is equal to culture.

    A number of situationisms concerning the common ground between language and sexual identity exist. Therefore, Derrida uses the term ’structuralist theory’ to denote the futility of textual culture.

    The subject is interpolated into a subconstructive discourse that includes art as a whole. But expressionism implies that the goal of the artist is social comment.

    The example of deconstructivist neodialectic theory which is a central theme of Gaiman’s Stardust is also evident in Sandman, although in a more self-sufficient sense. However, the subject is contextualised into a structuralist theory that includes culture as a totality.

    Bataille promotes the use of Foucaultist power relations to deconstruct sexism. But the subject is interpolated into a structuralist theory that includes truth as a reality.

    Foucault uses the term ‘expressionism’ to denote the role of the participant as writer. Thus, the premise of structuralist theory holds that narrative must come from the collective unconscious.

    3. Expressionism and capitalist feminism
    “Sexual identity is part of the rubicon of reality,” says Lyotard. If capitalist feminism holds, we have to choose between the subtextual paradigm of reality and Baudrillardist hyperreality. In a sense, Lyotard uses the term ‘Foucaultist power relations’ to denote a constructivist totality.

    Drucker[8] implies that we have to choose between capitalist feminism and postcultural sublimation. But any number of narratives concerning expressionism may be found.

    Sontag suggests the use of patriarchialist deappropriation to read and modify society. In a sense, the main theme of the works of Gaiman is the bridge between class and narrativity.

    The subject is contextualised into a capitalist feminism that includes truth as a reality. It could be said that Derrida uses the term ‘Foucaultist power relations’ to denote not materialism per se, but submaterialism.

    4. Gaiman and capitalist feminism
    If one examines expressionism, one is faced with a choice: either reject Foucaultist power relations or conclude that sexuality is capable of truth. Derrida’s model of expressionism holds that the task of the reader is significant form, given that the neodialectic paradigm of context is invalid. Therefore, the characteristic theme of Dahmus’s[9] essay on capitalist feminism is the rubicon, and some would say the failure, of premodern society.

    The main theme of the works of Gaiman is the common ground between class and society. In Death: The High Cost of Living, Gaiman reiterates Foucaultist power relations; in Sandman, although, he examines conceptualist rationalism. Thus, if expressionism holds, we have to choose between Foucaultist power relations and subcultural discourse.

    In the works of Gaiman, a predominant concept is the distinction between masculine and feminine. The primary theme of Pickett’s[10] critique of postcultural objectivism is a mythopoetical paradox. But Bataille’s analysis of Foucaultist power relations implies that language may be used to reinforce class divisions.

    “Class is intrinsically elitist,” says Lyotard; however, according to d’Erlette[11] , it is not so much class that is intrinsically elitist, but rather the dialectic of class. A number of constructivisms concerning the bridge between culture and sexual identity exist. Thus, Abian[12] states that the works of Gaiman are postmodern.

    Lacan promotes the use of capitalist feminism to challenge sexism. But the characteristic theme of the works of Gaiman is a textual whole.

    Foucault uses the term ‘expressionism’ to denote the dialectic, and eventually the futility, of subdeconstructivist class. It could be said that Sontag suggests the use of textual preconstructive theory to read sexual identity.

    Many narratives concerning Foucaultist power relations may be discovered. However, Lyotard uses the term ‘capitalist feminism’ to denote the common ground between consciousness and society.

    The creation/destruction distinction depicted in Gaiman’s Death: The High Cost of Living emerges again in Black Orchid. In a sense, expressionism implies that the purpose of the writer is social comment, but only if culture is distinct from art.

    The main theme of Porter’s[13] essay on capitalist feminism is the role of the observer as participant. It could be said that Bataille promotes the use of postdialectic discourse to attack the status quo.

    Any number of narratives concerning a self-falsifying totality exist. In a sense, if expressionism holds, we have to choose between Foucaultist power relations and cultural rationalism.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    1. Geoffrey, K. U. (1993) Expressionism and Foucaultist power relations. University of Massachusetts Press

    2. Humphrey, J. ed. (1980) Consensuses of Economy: Foucaultist power relations in the works of Spelling. Loompanics

    3. Sargeant, L. E. K. (1977) Foucaultist power relations and expressionism. And/Or Press

    4. Humphrey, L. ed. (1992) The Failure of Reality: Foucaultist power relations in the works of Gaiman. Loompanics

    5. Cameron, C. S. (1975) Derridaist reading, expressionism and capitalism. Panic Button Books

    6. Abian, R. H. R. ed. (1990) The Expression of Economy: Expressionism and Foucaultist power relations. O’Reilly & Associates

    7. Humphrey, O. L. (1986) Foucaultist power relations and expressionism. Schlangekraft

    8. Drucker, T. G. E. ed. (1973) The Absurdity of Discourse: Expressionism and Foucaultist power relations. Yale University Press

    9. Dahmus, Q. I. (1985) Foucaultist power relations and expressionism. Schlangekraft

    10. Pickett, A. K. I. ed. (1973) The Vermillion Door: The capitalist paradigm of expression, capitalism and expressionism. University of Illinois Press

    11. d’Erlette, A. E. (1995) Expressionism in the works of Gaiman. Cambridge University Press

    12. Abian, M. N. A. ed. (1970) The Discourse of Meaninglessness: Expressionism and Foucaultist power relations. Schlangekraft

    13. Porter, W. (1995) Foucaultist power relations and expressionism. And/Or Press
  • s
    slightly
    海,谢谢楼上,你一言一行都够我学习,你的一句不经意的话语都足够我用300页来论述。我不懂,你懂,就你懂。高兴了么?洗洗睡吧乖。
  • s
    slightly
    :D 我想,诸位除了恶搞一下我以外还能干点别的事情。须知你证明我装逼也好,愚蠢也好,藐视人民也好,哪怕你证明了其实我是只猴子也好,都无法证明严肃思考不必要、学术阅读是胡扯,也不会对你自己有房有车的生活理想帮一点忙。

    我还是那句话,选择清贫地读书和思考而不去选择工作与混日子、选择学七八国外语而不去读译本,都是我个人的选择,我从头到位都没明白为什么有人看这个不顺眼:D

    回家睡觉。白白。

    [本帖最后由 slightly 于 2007-8-22 02:32 编辑]
  • 因扎吉
    别海了,没那金刚钻,就别揽那瓷器活.也别300页了,您那78国英语的水平,弄出来还真怕把人下着,三更半夜的.多渗人那:D

    别看自称文青,装疯卖傻倒也和楼上某个学的挺快的, 别整天嗨嗨的,不知道人以为您真傻呢:D
  • r
    rcrc
    lz跟我像在说一件事情 其实起点彼此不同 我是从社会来说的 只有那一种描述 你觉得人被骗了 但他本身对那事没发言权 有必要骗他吗.. 而在他对自己事的把握上 有不断刷新的媒体 没有办法骗到他
    lz从人生来说就复杂了... 为了变聪明?这很功利 很不福柯.
    我只希望lz炫收藏可以单纯一点 不要像炫名表名车还指责别人没去买
    毕竟我下载来的书本来就可能是收藏癖扫描上传的
  • s
    slightly
    我甘拜下风:D ,您们都赢了,您们脸上都贴金了,我还真是没弄明白那位干嘛贴那么篇文章上来。八杆子都打不着的东西,别是一听人说福柯赶紧google一下也别管是什么就发上来吧?

    诸位,洗好,睡好。

    [本帖最后由 slightly 于 2007-8-22 02:37 编辑]
  • 因扎吉
    那是,人民都巴巴的等着您老人家带领我们走出去上层次呢,别睡啊倒是,您就忍心抛下这么些迷茫的人民吗,你们"艺术家"不是专往高层次上带人吗:D

    花着爹妈的血汗钱,悠闲地看着书,思考着人生,还时不时的关心劳苦大众一把,to b 还是not to b,这是什么样的一种境界啊
  • 因扎吉
    呦呦呦,您不是八国英语吗,这么篇简单的就扯杆子溜了,多没范儿啊:D

    谁说福柯了?那一段提到福老人家了?

    真看不懂就说,人民不会笑话您,没那习惯,你倒是也googlegoogle发表点意见啊?怕是没故出什么东西来,怯了吧:D
  • s
    slightly
    我刚才数了一下,您贴那篇里,foucaultist起码出现了23次,噢,原来这不是一篇谈福柯主义的文章阿:D 我英语真烂。您牛逼,你们都是福柯真传弟子,福柯出现23次也能说它没出现

    我真的怯了
  • s
    slightly
    闲逼扯淡够了么?:D

    各位该干吗干吗吧。我其实有句话一直憋在心里没说:

    “你真的以为你够水平对要入新索邦大学/索邦大学做比较语言学论文的人提问么?”
  • 因扎吉
    lz你太不艺术了,怎么这么快就萎了丫,啊? 年纪轻轻的,这可不好,这是病,得治
    话说您也真是,这么高的姿态出来,有板有眼的批评了水区的浮夸之风,又列出了这么骇人听闻,横跨数理化,文史哲的书单,颇有点斗士的范,怎么大家说两句,就不乐意了,嬉皮笑脸,阴阳怪气的说些风凉话,这样可不好,人民很失望啊,不过大家都知道,你不在乎,对吧:D

    嫌人民水平低,真要和你探讨探讨文学,你又要睡了,这出戏演的,实在是一点也不卡尔维诺啊


    其实我知道,lz宏观上睡了,微观上正卯足了劲google着呢,行啊lz,我看好你,以您这8国英语的水平,想必哪里的文章都游刃有余了
    等你高见哦 :D
  • s
    slightly
    ls反应真是慢了好几拍阿:D

    我笑话看够了,白白
  • s
    slightly
    您到底是瞎还是脸皮厚,或者二者兼而有之?:D

    我真被笑得不行了
  • 因扎吉
    瞧瞧,真没睡那:D

    lz您宏观微观理论结合实际结合的真好,其实回国来绝对能有好发展,于国于民都是大好事啊!


    foucaultist起码出现了23次,看来您还是屈尊看了一下么,真好笑,出现个foucaultist,就是福柯主义的文章吗?这话要是让作者L. Helmut Reicher听到了,还不和您掐起来.

    别光说大话,您也google半天了,我再次请您谈谈您对这片文章的观点.太长了是吗? 行,你就对Lacan 的 “Art is used in the service of class divisions,”.....这段谈谈您的看法吧,算是浅显的了:D


    让我看看有没有必要和这个将要入索邦大学做比较语言学论文的青年才俊继续聊下去:D
  • 因扎吉
    其实楼主你这样说大白话我还真不习惯,还像开头一样整两句文绉绉的多好,虽然半通不通的,但是起码有气势啊,现在这嬉皮笑脸的,不免流俗了,,不行,人民群众不答应!
  • 因扎吉
    行,您先满满google着吧,我小睡一会,

    实在不行老就把您那大量的福柯、大量语言学的大部头、兰波重达3公斤的画册、世界报1944到2006要闻合集都亮出来,我撑得住,

    不过河南文化厅限量3000无标价市价如今1k作用的朱仙镇年画画册就算了,不到那一步,都是人民内部切磋,犯不上
  • s
    slightly
    你是流氓你怕谁,我要真是跟你分析起来什么是foucaultist什么是expressionism,Derrida是不是一种吃的,你还得继续死掐。对不起,我没时间。而且,您。真的。没资格。:D
  • m
    madoka
    那也得看是什么类型的问题吧,我还认为我专业领域的事儿你们没水平提问我呢,可问题是这些事需要在普通论坛上炫吗。

    只能说太年轻气盛了啊。
  • s
    slightly
    先问我“这文章里到底哪儿有福柯”,再跟我来“有福柯也未必是福柯主义的文章”。同学,你脸皮实在太厚了:D :D :D :D :D 况且我可没说那是福柯主义的文章阿,你自问自答得好玩吗?

    就你这种脑残者,连文章里有23个福柯都数不清,还是先去学数数吧:D :D :D :D

    围观的群众们,你们看到这种白痴,还能若无其事地说读书越多越愚蠢么?
  • 我装错了XBOX360
    马大

    德语
    Willkommen! 1.pdf

    请问上面这本是不是德语入门书啊?
  • 因扎吉
    别介啊艺术家,google不出来就缩了?没电脑你还不搞艺术啦?那索邦大学怎么办?您忍心吗?

    我什么时候说过我是流氓?您这可是人参公鸡啊,人民怎么了?惹急了人民一样投诉你.别拿初级用户不当用户:D
    还别说什么expressionism了,我看你连个class divisions都讲不清楚,还研究福柯呢

    一来真格的您就没时间了,行啊楼主,我是看出来了,就算McElwaine老人家到这您也不尿人那一壶."我知道,我就不说!"

    [本帖最后由 因扎吉 于 2007-8-22 04:46 编辑]
  • m
    madoka
    LZ在法国还没到睡觉的点呢
  • 因扎吉
    脑残,白痴,哈哈我先拍个照,省的您编辑老

    原来缩邦大学未来之星就这水准啊?有23个福柯就是福柯主义文章吗?您真是太有才了,我宁愿相信你这是kuso
  • 我装错了XBOX360
    我想挑战一下自己的记忆力,楼主是不是以前在别人的斗富帖子里说自己拿了多少多少欧买了一副er4s,又花了多少多少听了BPO的那个??然后摆出一副别人跟我都钞票,我跟别人斗知识的样子?
  • 因扎吉
    谁知道呢,说不定人有一颗中国心,身在法兰西,按北京时间作息呢


    我一说点真格的,lz就要睡觉了,这都睡了几回了,还没睡着呢,还发帖挤兑我们人民呢,这是什么样的一种精神啊
  • 因扎吉
    嘘....你太不严肃了,这讨论哲学呢,小心楼主拿 "兰波重达3公斤的画册" 砸你
  • m
    madoka
    我觉着像,但是不清楚,不能恶意揣度啊。

    话说有德语和英语基础的话起码荷兰语很好懂。我没学过荷兰语,但是看荷兰语的东西起码能看懂一半,半年前还被逼着把英语和德语的图纸翻译成荷兰语,居然最后也硬着头皮糊弄完了
  • 因扎吉
    真没劲,楼主,没劲透了,真是快要进索邦大学的人啊,说缩就缩

    我是真抗不住了,明天还上班呢,我可没爹娘供着第二天睡舒服了起来再"搞艺术"的命,爹妈还等着我伺候呢.您看人民多不容易啊,您也行行好,多点拨点拨,别光扇巴掌,那是暴君,扇完给糖吃,指出我们错哪了,才是明主.

    虽然我福柯没您研究的清又透,数数没您数的快又准,我还是再一次请求您发表一下您对那篇文章的看法,不要再次忽视人民的请求了,人民不易啊!

    如果您真的觉得太长了,有困难,就简要说说对以下两点的看法算了,我这可不是恶意揣测啊:D

    1. capitalist feminism 属不属于表现主义的范畴?

    2. 你是否认同“Society is part of the collapse of language,”这个观点


    文章中对这两点还是有明确的态度的,你要是还打哈哈,我真替你家里那马尔可斯法语版全集、西班牙语原版若干、萨德侯爵全集、维多利亚地下小说合集、大量福柯、大量语言学的大部头、兰波重达3公斤的画册感到惋惜,遇人不淑啊,研究福柯?哥们,我看你是研究福娃的吧

    2008快到了,回来吧,大把的机会等着你:D
  • 愈液愈美丽
    读了这么多书若是还都一点看不出来“读书越多越愚蠢”这句话中的道理的话,也算读瞎了:D