没有专业的知识,非母语法律条文理解出现偏差,认错。

  • 大大大灰狼
    第一条赌约再明确一下:包括且不限于罚没等处罚。没有俺1赔10,有你们1赔1。
  • 大大大灰狼
    你如果在美国绿卡&公民,超万元不经申报现金交易,不要经过机构或中介,因为有可能机构或中介代为申报,私下的未经申报的超1万美元的大额现金交易你如果有,可以请人举报一下,看IRS会不会处罚你?

    你可以不申报过关被查一下啊。

    不要换概念。
  • j
    joyces
    严格是指什么?
    相对于小额交易,政府对大额巨额现金交易更加关注,是因为可以有效打击犯罪,不是对交易本身监管。
    我国是实行外汇管制的国家,有些交易,即使合法也在管制之列。比如资本账户下不可自由兑换,个人换汇额度为年5万美金等等。美帝的美元交易没有这些限制的,无论是经常账户还是资本账户下,是自由兑换的,只要合法交易就行。
  • z
    zhaozhao123
    卧槽,我上次现金2w多刀跟人交易的车会不会被IRS盯上
  • f
    flyingforce
    实际上美国也没有没收这个事情,标准说法是如果你带了超过1万美元没申报被查出来,是要被扣下的,但是你如果能证明这笔钱是合法收入,还是会还你的,可能扣个百分之几作为手续费啥,当然你是不合法收入,那就是人家打击的洗钱了,最后被当作赃款处理的。
    美国政府的金融管制还都是基于打击洗钱、逃税的目的,你是合法收入想要怎么用没有任何人可以管你的。
  • 大大大灰狼
    回复6#zhaozhao123


    这请咨询您的律师&会计师,或者去IRS查一下Form8300的相关要求。
  • g
    guxu
    你都不知道IRS是干什么的吧?
  • 大大大灰狼
    IRS的Form8300请说明一下
  • g
    guxu
    中国游客身上带了几百美元都可能被扣。。。
  • f
    flyingforce
    IRS查的是偷税漏税,只要你的交易是合法收入的交易,按照法律没有偷税漏税,IRS无权做任何事情;而你说的举报只能举报偷税漏税,或者至少偷税漏税嫌疑,而不是大额转账。
    当然美国的法律和国人理解不一样,夫妻之间、家庭成员之间转账每年超过一定额度也牵涉到赠与税,所以实际上大额交易不用交税的情况很少,让你感觉上以为转账就要IRS来管了。

    事实上美国海关也是统一一条思路下来,说起来你合法申报,即使直接带200万美金进来海关也不会多看一眼的,只是再多这洗钱的嫌疑也实在太高了点。
    仔细看了你refer的8300表格,应该你是对的,IRS玩了一揽子方案,只要大额交易就得申报;不过这个应该也是一样,即使不申报,事后能证明确实是合法交易,并且不是刻意欺骗IRS,应该也没啥问题。
  • 大大大灰狼
    第一:俺英文不好,下面这段由后列的内容请翻译一下,这是所说交易超1万申报的来源。

    不保证IRS官方地址:https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/form-8300-and-reporting-cash-payments-of-over-10000
    Filing Form 8300
    Generally, any person in a trade or business who receives more than $10,000 in cash in a single transaction or in related transactions must file a Form 8300. Persons includes an individual, a company, a corporation, a partnership, an association, a trust, or an estate. Persons must file a Form 8300 with the IRS if any part of the transaction occurs within any of the 50 states, the District of Columbia, or a U.S. possession or territory (American Samoa, The Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, Guam, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands).
    If you are required to file Form 8300, you must do so by the 15th day after the date the cash transaction occurred. A person can file Form 8300 electronically or by mailing the form to the IRS at: Detroit Computing Center, P.O. Box 32621, Detroit, Michigan 48232.
    In addition to filing Form 8300 with the IRS, companies need to furnish a written statement to each person whose name is required to be included in the Form 8300 by January 31 of the year following the transaction. This statement must include the name, address, contact person, and telephone number of the business filing Form 8300, the aggregate amount of reportable cash the business was required to report to the IRS from the person receiving the statement, and that the business provided this information to the IRS.
    Meeting the proper filing requirement and the requirement to furnish a written statement to each person named on the Form 8300 is very important, because there are potential civil and criminal penalties for failure to file Form 8300. Penalties for violation of the Form 8300 filing and furnishing requirements have been increased by the Trade Preferences Extension Act of 2015. Increased penalties apply to Form 8300 and related notices requiring filing or furnishing after December 31, 2015. In addition, penalty amounts are now adjusted annually for inflation.
  • 唐马儒
    我跟你赌个屁,狗屁不懂在那装,都不用我喷你,还是回家看美剧吧! iOS fly ~
  • z
    zhaozhao123
    (对于自己不了解的事情,不要武断下结论,以免误导不明群众)

    不用咨询任何律师,你自己看看form 8300的要求就可以了,很明确的说明是“生意”目的,个人交易不属于生意范畴。更简单的解释参考这里:

    “Even if you are engaged in a trade or business, the reporting requirement only applies to transactions associated with that specific trade or business. For example, if you run an antique furniture store and a customer pays $12,000 cash for a Hepplewhite period mahogany clock, you have a Form 8300 filing obligation (unless you’re exempt for other reasons).
    But if that same customer buys your personal Islander MK II 30-foot sailboat for $15,000 cash, you do not have to file a Form 8300 since you are not in the trade or business of selling boats.”
    参考链接:https://www.caymanfinancialrevie ... ayments-over-10000/
  • 大大大灰狼
    第二:俺说的是超过1万美元大额现金交易。即两个人直接不经过任何机构或中介进行超过1万美元大额现金交易,需要向IRS(这是俺的理解)或相关执法机构报备。非大额转账,转帐是需要经过机构或中介的。

    至于IRS查不查不讨论。
  • z
    zhaozhao123
    完全错误。
  • d
    diligent
    打赌内容的扣字眼而已,美海关的1万申报确实不是对个人,而是家庭或同行者一起算,但是申报仅仅是申报一下而已。几万块钱申报时给个口头理由后即可带钱走人。
    中国海关是5千美元的限额(超过少一点海关一般也放行),超额需要外管局批文(或情报部门手续)才能带走。
    1、美国申报放行和中国申报也不放行是区别。
    2、超额故意不报美国是怀疑赃款黑钱非法收入,要暂扣,合法收入放行,非法收入则按规矩处理。中国直接就是外汇走私行为,要罚款或没收,不管钱是合法还是非法的。
  • 大大大灰狼
    FS-2019-1, February 2019
    Federal law requires a person to report cash transactions of more than $10,000 by filing IRSForm 8300, Report of Cash Payments Over $10,000 Received in a Trade or Business. The information on the form helps law enforcement combat money laundering, tax evasion, drug dealing, terrorist financing and other criminal activities. Who is covered
    By law, a “person” is an iduindival, company, corporation, partnership, association, trust or estate. For example, dealers in jewelry, furniture, boats, aircraft or automobiles; pawnbrokers; attorneys; real estate brokers; insurance companies and travel agencies are among those who typically need to file Form 8300.
    Tax-exempt organizations are also “persons” and may need to report certain transactions. A tax-exempt organization doesn’t have to file Form 8300 for a charitable cash contribution. Note, however, that under a separate requirement, a donor often must obtain a written acknowledgement of the contribution from the organization. SeePublication 526, Charitable Contributions, for details. But the organization must report noncharitable cash payments on Form 8300. For example, an exempt organization that receives more than $10,000 in cash for renting part of its building must report the transaction. What’s cash
    For Form 8300 reporting, cash includes coins and currency of the United States or any foreign country. It’s also a cashier’s check (sometimes called a treasurer’s check or bank check), bank draft, traveler’s check or money order with a face amount of $10,000 or less that a person receives for:
    • A designated reporting transaction or
    • Any transaction in which the person knows the payer is trying to avoid a report.

    Note that under a separate reporting requirement, banks and other financial institutions report cash purchases of cashier’s checks, treasurer’s checks and/or bank checks, bank drafts, traveler’s checks and money orders with a face value of more than $10,000 by filing currency transaction reports.
    A designated reporting transaction is the retail sale of tangible personal property that’s generally suited for personal use, expected to last at least one year and has a sales price of more than $10,000. Examples are sales of automobiles, jewelry, mobile homes and furniture.
    A designated reporting transaction is also the sale of a collectible, such as a work of art, rug, antique, metal, stamp or coin. It is also the sale of travel and entertainment, if the total price of all items for the same trip or entertainment event is more than $10,000.
  • g
    guxu
    其实我还是蛮想赌的。我给楼主一万美元现金买个东西,如果没人管,楼主给我10万美金,是这样吗?
  • 大大大灰狼
    问题就在于,俺见过对此不了解现金没收拒绝入境的悲剧人物。所以俺发帖的意图是通过案例来表明某些国内忽略的东西到美国可能引起不必要的麻烦甚至损失。
  • 唐马儒
    理他干啥,就是上个帖子被喷惨了,新发个帖子找点面子,还拿法规说事儿,交通法规不许超速,我天天超也没被罚呀,看来又一个美国通诞生了.
  • f
    flyingforce
    楼上总结的好,楼主多少有点抠字眼;实际上中美两国的申报本质的逻辑是不一样的,美国的逻辑是钱是你的,你只要证明你不是非法洗钱的,你走你的;中国的逻辑就不说了
  • z
    zhaozhao123
    你压根就没弄清楚IRS定义的trade,business和designated reporting是啥意思。我提供的link针对这些定义说的很清楚,不愿意看也不强求,接受自己认为是对的结论就好。
  • 大大大灰狼
    俺在努力理解Jack Manhire这篇文章,然后给guxu回帖,没有及时回复,谢谢指教。
  • z
    zhaozhao123
    你这读文章都不读完的吗?By law, a “person” is an iduindival,你再往下看看IRS怎么解释的?其他实体一样算作person。英达那个事是属于个人和商家之间的trade,当然受到8300的约束,和你用超过10k的现金到dealer那里买车,人家dealer要上报8300一样一样的。这和个人与个人之间的交易根本就是两码事,你不要断章取义混淆概念。还是那句话,读文章你要读完,不要看到个标题就拿来当论据。

    另外,我也压根不是从业者,只是你描述的“我们”日常的生活和我们亲身感受的不一样,为了避免谣言的滋生,特指出而已,只对事不对人。
  • 唐马儒
    别认怂呀,不是开帖和我叫板吗?也不知道你哪来的勇气,我好歹在美国生活了快7年,什么能干什么不能干应该比你清楚,也不知道你哪来的自信来给我传授生活经验,你就跟其他美国通一样,狗屁不懂,就会装
  • 唐马儒

    老和尚耍你呢,你还当真了,这里边老和尚最坏 iOS fly ~
  • g
    guxu
    我不过是复述一下楼主在10楼的发言而已,不知道怎么就成了我提供的信息了。。。
  • 唐马儒
    我怕你不认账,所以我截图了,就是你说的! iOS fly ~
  • 大大大灰狼
    谢谢指教,俺阅读重点在By law, a “person” is an iduindival, company, corporation, partnership, association, trust or estate.如果您说的这再往下看指的是Tax-exempt organizations are also “persons” 这段俺承认真的是没有深入精读。另外因为以前看到的:让英达被罚32万美元的8300表格究竟何方圣神?这篇文章中:根据联邦法律规定,任何人如果一次性收到与之贸易经营和商业相关活动超过1万美元现金,或关联活动连续收到超过1万美元现金,就必须申报8300表格,即“商业交易报告(Report of Cash Payments)。交易行为通常包括货物买卖、售卖物业、物业出租、现金交换、借贷行为等。俺对这段话理解俺理解也出现偏差,把两个个人间非本人从事行业的超过1万美元的现金交易行为,认为是要申报8300的,导致对8300申报范围出现偏差。而根据Jack Manhire的说明这是不需要提交9300的。为避免误导,请移步zhaozhao123提供的专业说明地址:https://www.caymanfinancialreview.com/2015/08/19/when-do-you-report-cash-payments-over-10000/,讲解的非常清晰。

    这里解释一下,俺说的从业者指的是:Jack Manhire,从文末的简介看,他是十余年税务律师经历和现在美国财政部教师(大概,有误请指正),比国内的财经记者更为专业。因而说了:所在国更从业者更为专业。

    再次感谢您的指教,谢谢。
  • 唐马儒
    你知道你给我们解释一下呗,我就不信你比人家拿旅游签证的美国通明白! iOS fly ~
  • 2
    2ndchans
    这帖子可以是个典型教材。。。
  • z
    zhaozhao123
    不客气, 共同学习。就事论事的讨论,澄清事实即可,不要阴阳怪气,love and peace
  • z
    zhaozhao123
    其实你主楼里的例子还有更简单的解释。不管我俩是从事什么职业的,只要我俩个人对个人现金交易一辆车,不管是不是超过10k,都不用报8300. 但是,无论是你还是我,只要把这10k的现金存到银行去,那你就要老老实实填8300,否则IRS会找你喝茶。你不把现金存银行,就藏你家床底下,IRS知道个屁啊!

    这样解释会不会更简单点?
  • 唐马儒
    顶上去 让更多的人看到 iOS fly ~
  • z
    zhaozhao123
    其实,我对“同行者”还有疑问,估计第一次去美国的人也会糊涂。

    你要说家庭成员要一起算额度,这个很好理解,家庭成员一般都是同行的。

    但是如果是两个同事一起来美国开会,算不算“同行者”?

    那么,我就在想,CBP是怎么定义“同行者”的?是通过DS-160上填写的资料吗?我查了CBP的网站,好像没说怎么定义的。
  • 唐马儒
    你就别和他较真儿了,他都是瞎编的,就算超了一万没申报,也不会随便就没收的. iOS fly ~
  • 唐马儒
    不要怂 继续怼 iOS fly ~
  • g
    guxu
    把一万现金存进银行去也不会被请喝茶,因为谁知道你这钱是受贿还是真的去卖了,要卖的话卖了几次?

    最重要的一点,即使要填那张表也是卖家填,也就是说是收钱的人填。这和自己挣了钱去花有关系吗?
  • k
    kaxue
    直播美国通翻车现场HiPDA·NG
  • 唐马儒
    我存卖车的钱问过会计,会计说银行会报给irs,问你你能说出这钱是怎么来的就行,说这点钱一般也不会查,不值,只要别像英达那个傻逼每个月都存就可以. iOS fly ~
  • g
    guxu
    又吹牛。就你还请得起会计?
  • 唐马儒
    我还有家庭医生呢 iOS fly ~